In a new chat with Variety, Jamie Campbell Bower, who plays Vecna in Stranger Things, says he doesn’t see the character as a villain.

The following article contains spoilers for Episodes Eight and Nine of Stranger Things Season 4. 

Jamie Campbell Bower does not see Vecna as a villain. In a new chat with Variety, The Stranger Things actor – whose character’s nefarious ways (and mysteriously vanishing dick) have been the talk of the town ever since Season 4 came out – says that he understands where Vecna is coming from better than most.

“Am I able to view him as a villain? I’m certainly able to view him as as a point of conflict. But in terms of, like, is he evil or villainous?” Bower wondered during his interview when asked whether he saw Vecna – formerly One, or Henry – as a villain.

“I mean, I understand him, and I love him. And I relate to him. I just got a pain in my eyes as I was saying that — maybe I should shut up! Like, I understand him, and so I’m always gonna be on his side.” he added.

True to his word, Bower also defended his character when asked whether there was a chance he would have turned out okay if given the opportunity.

Saying Vecna had ‘more humanity than perhaps any others’ despite having a murderer for a father, Bower added that it was El’s actions that tipped him off.

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“There was a lot of humanity there, and then when El sends him into the Upside Down, all he’s left with is this rage and resentment. She takes everything away from him — everything that he possibly could have had, is now gone because of her. That is enraging. It’s more than that — it’s hate-fueling. It’s irritating. It’s actually really irritating.” he said.

“I think there’s still a level of humanity to him, even where he is now, but I think the humanity of him being where he is now is a fact that I can relate to. I’m sure we all can.” Bower mused.

“Sometimes if we hold on to things for too long, they become consuming — really, really consuming — and I feel like that’s where he’s gotten to, he’s in this consuming state. Maybe that’s bullshit. But it feels right to me.” he added.

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